So many players. So little success.

Luis, unfortunately I disagree w. everything you say. To think that the port national team lacks coaching and tactics is very simplistic and naive. They are some of the best at both. Think Porto a few seasons back. The national team is about as sound as any out there tactically and what people dont realize (why i dont know) is that like any sport, it all comes down to match-ups. Yes port has some of the best indiv talent but to think they dont know and understand what youre saying is wrong. I think the opposite in some way. While I could go on forever about this, a great example as to why your argument is flawed is the euro final against Greece, a game where they played extremely tactical and scared in some way. I barely saw one player try take on another. I also cannot remember a match I saw Port lose where they played too individualistic…these tend to be the ones they win. Finally if you’ve only been to the WC 3 times how do you expect to have a trophy. A wise brazillian told me once that if Brazil won the WC everytime they were the favorite then they would have 10 trophies. This is what all the underachievers out there sometimes overlook

Posted from  United States

Verdi,
I think you misunderstand what I wrote. Porto a few seasons back? Well, you never asked me what I think of Mourinho! Mourinho is in a category all his own. I pray for the day he takes over the NT. I can only hope that there will be more “special ones” like that in our future.

What some of us are saying is that it’s time to raise the bar. Champions don’t drop first games. That’s just a principle of winning, not an absolute truth, so don’t dig through the archives to find a champion that did just that.

Our comments regarding the mentality with the national team programs in general appears harsh, seeing the U21 team repeat the mistake of Euro2004 is just too much for anyone to take. Especially when you consider how dominant this U21 team can be. Sorry if we’re a little sore.

Just so you know. I’m no pessimist. I think Scolari and his players will make us proud!
Forca Scolari! Forca Portugal!

Posted from  United States

Verdi, I’m afraid I have to disagree with you on the EC04 final against Greece totally. The opposite is what happened. We kept trying to beat them one-on-one and trying to go around them the whole game and we just couldn’t beat they’re defensive wall.
It was only when Costa was brought in and he used his pin point passing where we able to get thru the wall. Remember Ronaldo got that Costa pass and wasn’t able to loob it past they’re goaltender? One of the few opertunities we were able to generate. We lost that game because they adjusted to our play and we failed to, or refused to change ours till it was too late.
Just my thoughts..

Posted from  Canada

So far…

SM 1 – 0 PT

Penalty with red card against PT.

N. Vale saves it!

SM scores on a corner.

SM 2 – 0 PT

Posted from  United States

SM 2 – PT 0 Final

The perfect example of what I have said. Again, we go down 1 – nil early, then struggle in desperation to catch up, suffering red cards and penalty kicks along the way. Winners control the game from the kickoff and impose their game. A coach that lost control of both games before the start whistle.

2 games, 0 goals, and suffered 3 goals

We have phenomenal players. They deserve better.

Posted from  United States

Right on Luis!

Posted from  Canada

One last thought. Scolari should start N. Vale. He seems to always be there when you need him.

Posted from  United States

O Grande Trinco |- you know your soccer-that Euro 2000 rocked- Humberto Coelho had that team ready. They had bite, talent anf hunger.
CHAO KENNEDY.

Posted from  Canada

I have to agree with much of what has already been said, but it basically comes down to making mistakes at crucial times. At this level, you simply can not afford to have the types of lapses of concentration that we are accustomed to making. We miss too many opportunities at goal and we make mistakes in marking and mental lapses on defense much too regulalry. Both of these are compounded by two things – we lack quality in keepers and at striker. Yes, I know Pauletta has a great scoring record but he has done nothing in the big competitions when it really counts. Last WC, Baia let us down. At this past euro, it was Ricardo. Despite what you say about the Greece game, we lost that simply because Ricardo came out stupidly on that cross and then tried to draw a foul (no idea what he was thinking). He was lucky to get a foul called in the England game in overtime which disallowed a goal. Traditionally we have been weak at these positions in comparison to other NT. Our best finish was in ‘66. It was no coincidence that we had our best striker ever on that side, and one of the best in WC history. From box to box we have as strong a side as anyone, it’s in the boxes where we lose the games. I have more to add, but will wait until tomorrow….it’s late here.
-Tony

Posted from  United States

Actually, I tend to see Verdi and the rest don’t differ all that much in their words. I agree with him, when he says most people overlook certain issues.

With all honesty, Portugal has what it takes to win. But is it the only team…? Of course not. Not even the strongets…

Against Greece… Look at Italy. Excellent players. How do they play? Overly defensive – their goal is more sacred than the virgin Mary. It’s sissy and coward, specially with those players. Do they care? No. They want to win. And they do.

Maybe I’m being somewhat of a poet, but I feel the problem with POR’s NT is the same as the one of the country itself. Lack of believe and professionalism (and yes Luis, ATTITUDE) added with a lot of excellent raw material. I mean, they are some of the best players there are, they know they are good but they never win. So, they always try to be the best. But in an amateur way. They overlook ALL the essential issues – those little details that finally make the diference, because when you play the best 32 in the world, you can’t possibly expect that the victory will naturaly come, just because you play better… The enemy also has their tricks and strengths… Again, look at Greece!!!

U21 is the best example… Said to be one of the best teams in the lot: 2 straight defeats. WHY??? Is it all bad luck? Is it lack of quality? Because this is what looks like, if you’re a foreigner who doesn’t know the players. What is it, then…? Lack of coaching quality? That wouldn’t allow them to reach halfway what they’ve reached…

Remember those kids in school, very bright but very lazy? Without discipline and compensating on talent? Most of them don’t go far, because everybody needs all and every resource to get to the champions shelf… It’s not enough to be good. You just have to be better than the others.

Posted from  Netherlands

Pedro P,

I agree with you, but who’s job is it to make sure that those very bright but very lazy students are ready for the big show? That’s right, the coach! I know they had very little time before the first game to prepare, but I bet you a great coach like Mourinho, Benitez, Ferguson, or Reijkard would have done better with 3 days notice. A. Oliveira is inert. No life on the sideline. Little or no inspiration for his team. He does not build any confidence in them when it is most crucial. If you saw or heard the games you could feel the cohesion and confidence running out of the team and he did nothing to gain control of the situation. I think talent got them through the qualifiers but talent is not enough to win tournys. France and SM studied our tactics and executed their plan perfectly. That’s coaching and focus. Didn’t PT have the same amount of time to study their opponents? A. Oliveira won’t work in PT again. Actually, scratch that he’s perfect for the Superliga and their long list of mediocre managers.

Posted from  United States

Hey, Luis, I’m also quite pissed off myself with the recent sequence of events…

Agree that the motivation and mentality work is all the coach’s realm.

Doesn’t mean Agostinho (not Antonio) Oliveira is a bad coach. Or that all the coaches in superliga are bad. Portugal has already exported several coaches and the success / unsuccess ratio is far more positive than negative.

What I mean is that a change in attitude is required – Mourinho was a breath of fresh air in th world of coaches. And it’s also a sign of times… Like it or not, Portugal as a team (with all its quality) is only reaching the higher stages of the world frequently, right now. There’s a lot to learn. My only problem is if they make mistakes and don’t learn from them. Which most times is what it seems…

What makes a coach a good one…? I’d use a cliche and say results… Scolari likes “supported football” and short passes with possession. Mourinho likes “direct football”, with as many passes to as closest to the oppposite goal possible. Ask Trapattoni and you’ll get a toally diferent answer. Who’s the best…? The best is the guy who motivates the players and is able to build a team and spot the enemies weaknesses and strenghts and finds a way to get round them. That’s how I see it. And it’s another cliche…

Posted from  Netherlands

Well said. I prefer a mix of direct and circulation football myself. A mix of Mourinho and Scolari if you will. The point is control. How do keep control of the game and your opponents one step behind the ball. Control allows you to find weaknesses and then exploit them at the right time. If you can’t control the game with great strategy, movement and passing then you have to hope for the early strike to put the opponent into a desperate search for the equalizer. But of course, all these things take leadership, vision, communication and execution — four things that make a great coach. I’m sorry but I think A. Oliveira lacks these qualities. It was the same with the senior team not so long ago. Only difference now is Scolari. I hope he leaves a long and lasting impact on the coaching structure at FPF.

Posted from  United States

Pedro you touch on a point that I was going to make. Let’s forget about the reasons for us not doing well, there have been many valid points made and there are many reasons for us not doing well, including bad luck, (think Euro 2000 v France), bad coaching, bad attitudes, etc.

Personally, I would rather us never win anything then decide to play the way teams like Greece and Italy play. I can’t blame Greece because they don’t have the talent to complete at must put their trust in a “system”. Italy however have as much talent as anyone in the world and yet they play like a bunch of cowards – playing NOT to lose instead of trying to win and play as well as they are capable. Whatever are short comings at least we try to WIN. Pedro you also make some interesting points about the problem being related to the problems with the Portuguese culture in general. I would agree with them. After all, it’s only natural that the NT would be a reflection of the citizens they represent. That doesn’t mean we can’t change our attitude and our success, but I would rather not compromise our goals in order to do so. Maybe I am naive to think so, but hey, we do tend be a bit of dreamers and we might just put it all together one day.

All this talk is just making me even more anxious for it to all begin…

-Tony

Posted from  United States

I HOPE, THAT I AM MISUNDERSTANDING WHAT YOU GUYS ARE SAYING BECAUSE MY INTERPRETATION OF WHAT IS BEING SAID IS THAT THE CULTURE PRODUCES LOOSERS OR A LOSING ATTITUDE.

THE CULTURE IS HAS BEAUTIFUL AS THE PORTUGUESE PEOPLE ARE. GUYS LET’S GET SERIOUS, THE PORTUGUESE CULTURE ROCKS AND IS MADE OF WINNERS.

HOW MANY COUNTRIES WITH THE POPULATION PORTUGAL HAS DO WELL ON A CONSISTENT BASIS. BOYS ,BE PROUD OF THE CULTURE-THE REASON WE LOSE IS BECAUSE WE SCORED LESS THAT THE TEAM WE PLAYED. WE PLAY A BEAUTIFUL GAMES – WITH HIGH RISK AND WE DO NOT HAVE THE TALENT POOL THAT OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE. ITALIA WON 1 WORLD CUP IN THE POST WAR ERA-THAT’S IT.SO DO NOT BLAME THE CULTURE- WE ARE WHO WE ARE – AND IF WE SCORE MORE THAN WE LET IN PER GAME WE WIN. THAT IS IT. I HOPE NOBODY FROM ANY CULTURE FEELS THAT THERE NT HAS NOT WON BECAUSE OF THEIR CULTURE, LAZY PLAYERS, PRIMADONNAS ECT. BECAUSE THE TRUTH BE SAID EVERY PLAYER DREAMS OF RAISING THE CUP WITH THEIR NT COLOURS.

THE ONE’S WHO DO IT USUALLY HAVE THE BETTER TEAM-

Posted from  Canada

Proud to be Lusolicious! We do rock! That’s why it is so frustrating when bad coaches squander our talented players. Every day I see the excitement build in our people. The love and committment I see around Scolari and his players makes me proud. Such “carinho” should always be valued and respected. I know Scolari won’t let us down. Forca Portugal!

Posted from  United States

I AGREE. SCOLARI IS WINNER. I THINK THE LESSONS THAT WE HAVE LEARNED FROM HIM ARE PRICELESS BUT UNFORTUNELY WHEN THE NEXT COACH IS SELECTED THE CLUBISMO WILL START AGAIN AND INTERNATIONAL TOURNAMENTS WILL BECOME VENUES TO SHOWCASE PLAYERS THAT WILL FETCH THE GREATEST DOLLARS. THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CULTURE-IT SIMPLY HAS TO DO WITH PAYING THE PEOPLE OR CLUBS THAT HELPED YOU BECOME NT COACH.

SCOLARI DID NOT HAVE A HISTORY IN PORTUGAL AND DID NOT HAVE TO PAY OFF FAVORS OR ELSE THE TEAM WOULD BE MADE UP OF CURRENT FC PORTO PLAYERS. PINTO THE COSTA IS THE GODFATHER AND THE NT COACH IS SIMPLY A PAWN.

THE CURRENT NT IS OUR TEAM AND LET’S CELEBRATE TOGTHER WHEN CARVALHO HEADS IN A CORNER TO START THINGS OFF WITH ANGOLA

CHAO VIVA PORTUGAL.

Posted from  Canada

I didn’t mean to imply anything about producing losing, though I think our culture is not as achievement oriented as say Germany. I think that the Portuguese are more easily satisfied and that I consider to be a good thing. As much as we love futebol, we also understand that it is just a game…yes, no matter how much you love it, it is not life and death. I was in Portugal during the Euro and I was lucky enough to attend 9 games, including all four Portuguese victories. The whole experience was great but the poinit I wanted to make was that despite losing to Greece at home, the mood was still positive. We realized and were proud of what we had acheived, even if it was NOT ultimately the championship. I do feel that there is a certain attitude however that permeates Portuguese culture. You will see it mentioned even in tourist books and it’s intermingled with the defenition of soldade. It is this inexplicable feeling of impending doom. Even when we are winning games, you have this sort of expectation that they will do something or something crazy might happen. It’s the…oh no, here we go again feeling. I know I’m not the only one. The stadium was filled with this exact feeling during the Spain game and the England game of the Euro. I even think that this over confidence that people percieve portuguese players to have is really just their way to cover up for ultimately is a lack of true belief. Often times this only comes out when we are under pressure and we panic, but I do feel it’s there. Maybe I am way off, but I do feel that if we can ever get over the hump, which btw we are doing – remember this is the FIRST time we have qualified in back to back WCs, that our confidence will grow and much of this might change. Also, Kennedy, your point about being proud of our achievement is well taken. There are very few countries of our size that can match us in quality of players. Off the top of my head I can only think of the Netherlands, but I’m sure there are others.

Forca Portugal.
-Tony

Posted from  United States

TONY , MOST EUROPEANS HAVE AN EASY GOING ATTITUDE WITH SOME EXCEPTIONS OF COURSE. THE GREEKS HAVE A LAID BACK ATTITUDE AND THEY PULLED IT OFF.

THE SENSE OF ANXIETY THAT YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU WITNESSED AT THE GAMES IS A RESULT OF PORTUGAL PLAYING IMPORTANT GAMES AGAINST TRADITIONALLY BETTER TEAMS THAN US AND WE SOME HOW LOOSE.I MYSELF FEEL THIS WAY AT TIMES BECAUSE I HAVE SUFFERRED IN EURO 84, 96, 2000,AND 2004.

THE REASON FOR THIS ANXEITY IN MY OPINION IS A RESULT OF NOT BEEN ABLE TO PRODUCE QUALITY STRIKRES THAT CAN SCORE AT KEY MOMENTS.

SO WHAT HAPPENS IS THAT THE TEAMS WE PLAY AGAINST BUNKER DOWN 11 PLAYERS IN THE BOX AND WE COME REAL CLOSE TO SCORING BUT WE DON’T AND/OR WE SUFFER A GOAL AND ANOTHER GOAL ON A COUNTER ATTACK(GREECE 2004).

ANOTHER REASON FOR THE ANXIETY -REMENBER WE ARE A SMALL NATION WITH SMALL INFLUENCIAL POWERS- THERE HAVE BEEN SOME CALLS AGAINST US THAT TURN ANY SANE PERSON INTO A NUTCASE.

THERE ARE 2 REASONS FOR PEOPLE BEING SATISFIED WITH THE EURO RESULT 2004.
1- WE LOVE TO THROW A PARTY AND BE GREAT HOSTS AND THAT IS WHAT WE DID – WE SHOWED OFF OUR BEAUTIFUL COUNTRY(CULTURE) WITH CLASS.
2-THAT WAS OUR BEST RESULT TILL TODAY AND THAT ACHIEVEMENT IS WORTH CELEBRATING-THE NEXT TIME -PEOPLE WILL WANT MORE.

THE GERMANY COMPARISON IS A GOOD ONE- I’M NOT SURE THIS TIME AROUND GIVEN THEIR POOR RESULTS OF LATE THAT GERMANY WILL NOT BE HAPPY WITH TOP 16.

WE NEED TO FIND STRIKES WHO CAN RESOLVE SITUATIONS – I THINK MY FATHER’S GENERATION KNEW THAT EUSEBIO WOULD SOMEWAY, SOMEHOW FIND A WAY TO PUT IT IN THE NET-THEIR SENSE OF CONFIDENCE EVEN TODAY WHEN TALKING ABOUT THAT TEAM IS SUPREME.
LET’S NOT LOOK FOR OTHER RAESONS FOR LOOSING. THE PLAYERS ON OUR NATIONAL TEAM ARE WINNERS ABROAD – AND THEY HAVE THE SAME CULTURE (PORTUGUESE) BUT WHAT THEY POSSIBLY HAVE IS -STRIKERS- WITH BETTER QUALITY THAN ON THEIR NT.

MAYBE LIEDSON IS THE ANSWER OR PLACING RONALDO BEHIND THE STRIKER TO CREAT SPACE.

VIVA PORTUGAL – CHAO

Posted from  Canada

Kennedy: spotting a culture’s downsides doesn’t mean lack of pride in it. Every culture has highs and lows. The country’s history speaks for itself. What Spain and Portugal did in the XV and XVI centuries could only be compared to what the USA and the USSR did in the XX, with the space race. And let me say it’s more dificult to get your ass in a piece of wood, heading to what everybody believes to be the end of the world, than to go on a rocket heading for the moon. But I diverge… This doesn’t mean the portuguese culture, then or nowadays (I’d even say the whole latin european culture), doesn’t have it’s flaws…

Even if it wouldn’t it’d still be my country and part of who I am. I’ve lived my life in Portugal and since some years live in The Netherlands. 3 hours flight that puts me in a more diferent culture than an entire ocean – any portuguese would feel more at home in, say, Brazil than in North Europe…

The fact most people that write here actually live abroad surelly counts on the national pride department.

I am super proud of the way our players play and, to be honest, I kinda prefer them to win less times but not to sell their soul and start playing like Italy…

But, admiting one’s flaws – not the same as considering them a curse – is the first step to overcome them and be better.

Posted from  Netherlands

Agree 100% with what you just wrote, Kennedy.

But the risk of the counter is always there if you want to play in possession. Naturally, to do so without a clinical killer in the box is already quite corageous… And sometmes the line between bravery and stupidity is thin. STILL, in 2004 we saw the team didn’t lose foccus and determination while loosing – ENG match – nor made stupid mistakes nor lost their minds like against Korean in 2002. So, I keep my hopes…

The bad calls always happen in favour of the favourites, and man… THE qualifying match against Germany, in 1997, is one I’ll never forget…

Posted from  Netherlands

So let me sum this thread up. We believe in our players talent. We want them to be well served by good coaches. We love our culture and believe that Portugal can achieve anything it sets its collective mind to. Oh and one last thing. WE WANT TO BE WORLD CHAMPIONS! And we would gladly give up the life of a millionaire for that glory since being so lusolicious is riches enough for us. FORCA PORTUGAL!

Posted from  United States

PERFECT. WELL SAID.

Posted from  Canada

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Posted from  Germany

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Posted from  United Kingdom